Traveller-digest     Tuesday, October 12 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1196



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Starports in the 21C
Re: UNCLASSIFIED Was Re: GURPS errata now Graffiti
RE: Population Growth
Re: Firing two guns at once
RE: Feudal Technocracy
Re: Near C rocks
Re: UNCLASSIFIED Was Re: GURPS errata now Graffiti
Re: Feudal Technocracy
RE: Metric System & GURPS
Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally
Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally
Re: Traveller Player Roster 
Please ignore this test message
Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally
Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally
Re: subsector/sector mapping software
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)
Way OT (was RE: Metric System & GURPS)
Changes from GURPS Traveller 1/e to 2/e
Re: subsector/sector mapping software 
Re: Tracers (was: Ammo Conservation)
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)
Re: Tracers (was: Ammo Conservation)
RE: Traveller Versions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:36:05 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Starports in the 21C

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 

> Interesting data point. The Chinese use *oak* for such disposable heat
> shields.

Not at all surprising to anyone who's done any jewelry work. Charcoal blocks
are typically used as stable platforms to braze metals on. They're soft, you
can stick pins in 'em to hold thnigs in place, and they hold up to the heat of
a torch quite well.

Oak is a dense, hard wood, making excellent charcoal, expecially as you're
absorbing all the energy to do so as you re-enter (awfully anaerobic up there
in the upper atmosphere)

You'll want to make _really_ sure there's no knots or other weak points,
though ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:21:34 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED Was Re: GURPS errata now Graffiti

- -----Original Message-----
From: Hughes, Michael <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au>
To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com' <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 7:55 AM
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Was Re: GURPS errata now Graffiti



>Case Example. In letters many feet high in bold black paint;
>
>'I AM THE ANGLE OF DEATH'


Now that's non-euclidean geometry.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:08:04 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Population Growth

Rupert Boleyn writes:
>Ian Ferguson wrote:
>>Only females are considered (males are considered
>>more or less superfluous by population biologists).
>I presume that they aren't concerned with such trivial matters as 
>whether or not there is enough food for all these children, then? I 
>made a simple model of a primitive village few few years back, and 
>came to the conclusion that killing off a goodly chunk of the adult 
>male population (in a war, for example) would have almost as bad an 
>effect as the death of the same number of women, simply because of 
>the loss of food production.

	Incredibly enough, population biologists do think of such
	things.  The formulae that I was discussing describe the
	potential growth of a population, not the actual growth
	under any one particular set of conditions.  My posts were
	getting long enough without a long dissertation on the
	factors affecting the abundance of organisms.  As for
	the contribution of males, in many (probably most) species
	the male contributes little other than genes to the next
	generation.  In humans, males do contribute to their
	offspring, but that does not mean that women are helpless
	without men to feed them and their children.  I would 
	certainly expect that 9 women with 1 man could produce more
	children than 5 women with 5 men, unless the number of 
	children is restricted by something else.

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:13:30 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

In a message dated 10/12/99 3:32:17 AM !!!First Boot!!!, 
rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:

<< Ah, but in the NZ army you're not supposed to do that 'cos they cost 
 too much especially the plastic Steyr ones). They spend so long 
 drilling soldiers into putting the mags back into the pouches that I 
 suspect that when the cruch comes some of the younger troopies are 
 going to get killed by spending too long following the drill. >>

That's why I just drop my empty speedloaders on the floor at the range; I 
just put a towel on the floor so they don't get beat up by the concrete...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:17:34 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Feudal Technocracy

Chris Peers writes:
>I have read the definitions.  What does the TML have to say on it.
>What is it?  Why does it come about?  How do the citizens live?
>Interested to hear all answers.

	Well, since you wanted ALL answers: IMTU this government type
	is similar to the world described in the second "Deathworld"
	book by Harry Harrison.  Society is divided into exclusive
	factions, each of which controls certain technology.  One
	has primitive generators and uses electricity, another builds
	steam engines, a third guards the secrets of chemistry, etc.
	While the technology has been (more or less) maintained, the
	theory behind it had been submerged in religeon.  The hero of
	the story employs his J-o-T skill to tip the local balance of
	power to his advantage.  Some definite adventure possibilities
	here.

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:25:25 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Near C rocks

At 02:53 PM 10/12/1999 +1000, you wrote:
>I agree that there should be mention of the Hyper Velocity planetary 
>bombardment
>systems in Traveller, but as an aside.
><<Great Stuff Snipped>>
>The only person mad enough to use this would have to b Lucan, and maybe the
>Solomani during the Black War period.


I tend to disagree with this, if only for the Solomani.  Lucan was bent on 
revenge and denying planets and resources to his enemy, where the Solomani 
were seeking to reclaim territory.  I can see all factions setting a 
lifeboat or gig on a terminal course with military installations to try for 
the 'one shot stop', but I can not see the Solomani dropping a rock on planets.

Rocking the K'kree, hell, that should be a given.


Kurt Feltenberger

"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
    may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
      ~Stephen Decatur


mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:54:50 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED Was Re: GURPS errata now Graffiti

>Case Example. In letters many feet high in bold black paint;
>
>'I AM THE ANGLE OF DEATH'


>Now that's non-euclidean geometry.

But not Non-Aristotlian thought.  :)


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:59:17 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy

>Well, since you wanted ALL answers: IMTU this government type
>is similar to the world described in the second "Deathworld"
>book by Harry Harrison.  Society is divided into exclusive
>factions, each of which controls certain technology.  One
>has primitive generators and uses electricity, another builds
>steam engines, a third guards the secrets of chemistry, etc.
.>While the technology has been (more or less) maintained, the
>theory behind it had been submerged in religeon.  The hero of
>the story employs his J-o-T skill to tip the local balance of
>.power to his advantage.  Some definite adventure possibilities
>here.
>
>Peez

Unfortunately, each society-faction barely even understood its own
"specialty".  Remember Jason Din'Alt's derision everytime he saw the "holy
of holies".  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:41:00 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Metric System & GURPS

At the risk of incurring further wrath from the "GURPS  is  good,
metric is bad" brigade ...

Cos 90 wrote:
> > Personally, GT should have used metric as well, to keep the
> > same scientific feel as the other Traveller versions 
<snip>
> > (OTOH, I would never use metric in a non-modern fantasy game,
> > since it would have the wrong feel as well).
>
> Heck, even using modern-day US measurements doesn't sound
> right. The distance between two towns in a fantasy game should
> be measured in "leagues", not "miles" or "kilometres".
> Similarly, other odd-sounding, outdated measures should be
> used: bushels, pecks, rods, firkins, demijohns, and so on. Mind
> you, converting them can be a pain... I could never remember
> how many farthings there were in a hogshead...)

Exactly!  The measuring system used (whether metric, Imperial, or
other) is part  of  the  "look-and-feel"  of  the  game  setting.
Fantasy RPGs *typically* use medievil European units ... feet and
inches, pounds and onces, leagues, etc.  (Many dungeons start off
"you are in a 10 foot by 10 foot room with a door  on  the  north
wall".)  Similarly,  since  metric  is  a  favourite   with   the
scientific community it sounds modern and thus is  common  in  SF
RPGs like Traveller.  (Standard corridors are  1.5  meters  wide,
and staterooms are 3 meters by 4.5 meters.)

However, while I think Traveller should use meters and kilograms,
don't forget that units like "displacement tons" are not metric!

Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:14:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally

Thad Coons writes:
 
> Such pessimism. I wasn't around for the first (zillion - 3)
> rounds so I don't know how near-c people were driving their
> rocks, but back in August I applied a little calculus to the
> definition of kinetic energy and posted (IMHO) a quite
> respectable handwave.  It met with deafening silence then, but
> here it is again.
Hm.  I didn't see it, but if you did, you did it a bit wrong, see below.
> 
> The power rating for T-Plates is the maximum power used for
> design purposes. Each drive has a V rating of (G-rating times 100
> km/sec).  At velocities below this, T-plate drives have the rated
> acceleration, but use less than maximum power.  At higher
> velocities, they use the rated power, but acceleration drops off
> to remain inversely proportional to the velocity. 
> This means, for instance, if a 1-G ship is going less than 100
> km/sec, its maximum acceleration is still 1 G, and it is not
> operating at full power. On the other hand, a 2-G ship going at
> 1000 km/sec (5 times its V rating) at full power can produce a
> maximum acceleration of 1/5 its G rating, or 0.4 G)
> 
> This amendment isn't overly complicated and it lets you have T-
> Plates and conservation of energy, too. Going up to 1% c is
> almost routine for 6-G ships, but it's a lot harder to go much
> faster, or to do with slower ships. A rock with 6-G thrusters attached
> needs about the width of the solar system and several months to get up to
> about 5% c.

No, if you want conservation of energy, you need to increase the power requirements from about 10 watts/newton (I think) to (thrust * velocity) watts/newton, or .1MW/newton for the 100 kps velocity suggested above.  Making this viable in turn would require appalling (4 orders of magnitude) increases in the power output of fusion plants.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:17:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally

> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 04:38:10 -0400
> From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
> 
> Craig Berry wrote:
> 
> >Trust me, there is *no way* to make t-plates and Imperial
> >military history as stated work consistently.  A handwaved ban
> >on near-c rocks is the only solution.
> 
> Such pessimism. I wasn't around for the first (zillion - 3)
> rounds so I don't know how near-c people were driving their
> rocks, but back in August I applied a little calculus to the
> definition of kinetic energy and posted (IMHO) a quite
> respectable handwave.  It met with deafening silence then, but
> here it is again.
> 
> The power rating for T-Plates is the maximum power used for
> design purposes. Each drive has a V rating of (G-rating times 100
> km/sec).  At velocities below this, T-plate drives have the rated
> acceleration, but use less than maximum power.  At higher
> velocities, they use the rated power, but acceleration drops off
> to remain inversely proportional to the velocity. 

Objection:  Velocity relative to what?  Absolute velocity is meaningless,
thanks to Uncle Albert.  If it's velocity relative to a nearby big mass
(the "grab and push" model), t-plates end up working unrecognizeably
differently from the canon description (though it does solve the runaway
energy problem, in much the same way HEPlaR does).  I get the sense this
latter is what you're suggesting.  If so, why not just bite the bullet and
go to HEPlaR instead?

- -- 
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      "There it is; take it."  - William Mulholland

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:50:54 +0100
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster 

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Mark Preston, Whitworth, Lancashire (in the sunny old UK)
CT (Spinward Marches), T4 / T4.1 (M0 & M0 special)
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:00:23 +0100
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Please ignore this test message

Please ignore this - I am having trouble getting messages onto the list and
this is just a test.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:31:08 -0500
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally

< delurking >

Why is Heplar considered biting the bullet?  Is there a technical flaw in
heplar or is it just an unwillingness to give up thruster plates.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>


>> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 04:38:10 -0400
>> From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>>
>> Craig Berry wrote:
>>
>> >Trust me, there is *no way* to make t-plates and Imperial
>> >military history as stated work consistently.  A handwaved ban
>> >on near-c rocks is the only solution.
>>
>> Such pessimism. I wasn't around for the first (zillion - 3)
>> rounds so I don't know how near-c people were driving their
>> rocks, but back in August I applied a little calculus to the
>> definition of kinetic energy and posted (IMHO) a quite
>> respectable handwave.  It met with deafening silence then, but
>> here it is again.
>>
>> The power rating for T-Plates is the maximum power used for
>> design purposes. Each drive has a V rating of (G-rating times 100
>> km/sec).  At velocities below this, T-plate drives have the rated
>> acceleration, but use less than maximum power.  At higher
>> velocities, they use the rated power, but acceleration drops off
>> to remain inversely proportional to the velocity.
>
>Objection:  Velocity relative to what?  Absolute velocity is meaningless,
>thanks to Uncle Albert.  If it's velocity relative to a nearby big mass
>(the "grab and push" model), t-plates end up working unrecognizeably
>differently from the canon description (though it does solve the runaway
>energy problem, in much the same way HEPlaR does).  I get the sense this
>latter is what you're suggesting.  If so, why not just bite the bullet and
>go to HEPlaR instead?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:25:41 -0700
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally

>The power rating for T-Plates is the maximum power used for
>design purposes. Each drive has a V rating of (G-rating times 100
>km/sec).  At velocities below this, T-plate drives have the rated
>acceleration, but use less than maximum power.  At higher
>velocities, they use the rated power, but acceleration drops off
>to remain inversely proportional to the velocity.
>This means, for instance, if a 1-G ship is going less than 100
>km/sec, its maximum acceleration is still 1 G, and it is not
>operating at full power. On the other hand, a 2-G ship going at
>1000 km/sec (5 times its V rating) at full power can produce a
>maximum acceleration of 1/5 its G rating, or 0.4 G)
>
>This amendment isn't overly complicated and it lets you have T-
>Plates and conservation of energy, too. Going up to 1% c is
>almost routine for 6-G ships, but it's a lot harder to go much
>faster, or to do with slower ships. A rock with 6-G thrusters attached
>needs about the width of the solar system and several months to get up to
>about 5% c.


The problem is relativity - there is no 'stationary' reference to measure
velocities relative to.  Yuor ship may me doing 1000km/sec in one reference
frame, but in another frame it may be stationary (ie You still get the full
2G accel.)!!

Mark.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:25:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net>
Subject: Re: subsector/sector mapping software

Howdy!

> > >If you go with Linux, and have Perl and Perl/Tk, I have a partial
> > port
> > >of Galactic available at www.radix.net/~herveus/traveller/
> > 
> > 	Anything Linux-specific about this port, or will it work on any
> > Perl/Tk platform?
> 
> I copped it and tried it out, but I can't get it to work.  Course, I'm not a 
> Perl *OR* TK programmer, so YMMV.
> 
It's been a while since I touched it, so I may have overlooked something.
*boogers* I'll try to take a look at it today and "make adjustments".

yours,
Michael
- -- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:26:25 PDT
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)

>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
>The problem with grenade launchers (and most ballistic weapons) is the
>launch point can be discovered using counter battery radar.

The capability now exists to trace the fire from an assault rifle back to 
it's source with a high degree of accuracy (even saw this on a show about 
military technology).

A generous and sadistic GM,

Brandon Cope

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:37:23 -0500 ()
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Way OT (was RE: Metric System & GURPS)

>> Heck, even using modern-day US measurements doesn't sound
>> right. The distance between two towns in a fantasy game should
>> be measured in "leagues", not "miles" or "kilometres".

IIRC, the mile is derived from a Roman unit (milia passuum?) equal to 1,000
Roman paces (which were, in turn, equal to about 5 feet each). So I think
it's appropriate for a fantasy game, especially if it's Ars Magica. ;-)



Tschuess,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:36:59 PDT
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com>
Subject: Changes from GURPS Traveller 1/e to 2/e

UPS dropped off my copy of GURPS Traveller, 2/e yesterday. Here are
the most obvious changes I've found (excluding any published
errata I'm familiar with).

Chapter 1:
     not re-read

Chapter 2:
     not re-read

Chapter 3:
     p.83: now gives wealth based on character's TL

Chapter 4:
     p.108: Personal Armor sidebar dropped and replaced with
     p.109-111: Design Your Own Weapons reduced to two paragraphs,
     now gives descriptions of all weapons
     p.114-115: Weapon table layout slightly different, 10mm
     accelerator rifle added
     p.116: Section on bionics and robots (no stats) added

Chapter 5:
     p.119: Travel times table now uses whole number acceleration
     from 1 to 6 G. Sidebar replaced with planetfall rules from
     GURPS Vehicles
     p.120: Brief note on gas giants added to sidebar, jump masking
     rule added to text (from Far Trader, not canon)
     p.121: Sidebar on fuel greatly changed
     p.122: Sidebar on revenues changed to match Far Trader

Chapter 6:
     p.124: Now uses tables to convert characters
     p.125: Completely different way to determine skill levels in
     conversions

Chapter 7:
     p.130: Introduction rewritten
     Throughout: many ships errors have been fixed, including the
     infamous modular cutter; most ship stats are changed to some
     degree

Chapter 8:
     p.156: sidebar has added notes on turrets
     p.157: sidebar reworked
     p.159: After-Market Mods paragraph added in sidebar

Chapter 9: not re-read

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:49:28 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: subsector/sector mapping software 

> Howdy!

Greetings, Earthling.  <grin>

> > > >If you go with Linux, and have Perl and Perl/Tk, I have a partial
> > > port
> > > >of Galactic available at www.radix.net/~herveus/traveller/
> > > 
> > > 	Anything Linux-specific about this port, or will it work on any
> > > Perl/Tk platform?
> > 
> > I copped it and tried it out, but I can't get it to work.  Course, I'm not a 
> > Perl *OR* TK programmer, so YMMV.
> > 
> It's been a while since I touched it, so I may have overlooked something.
> *boogers* I'll try to take a look at it today and "make adjustments".

Thanxx 1.0e6  I appreciate it.  Cynthia Higgenbottom came out with 'ssv',
which works ok, except that it saves off in XWD format, which screws up the
colors pretty badly, *AND* makes a humoungous image file kinda like a Windoze
bitmap file.  Have to run it thru Convert & Xpaint to get anything rilly
useable.  I *suppose* it might be interesting to see if I can hack the
source a bit and see what I get; should teach me some stuff about C...

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:27:54
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Tracers (was: Ammo Conservation)

At 11:54 AM 10/12/1999 +0100, you wrote:

>Hmmm ... what about gauss weapons: could they have tracer ammo?

There'd have to be an ignition method, but sure.
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:35:54 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)

They're also based on sonc echolocation, iirc. IOW, passive sensors, no
HARM threat ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Brandon Cope wrote:

> 
> >From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
> >The problem with grenade launchers (and most ballistic weapons) is the
> >launch point can be discovered using counter battery radar.
> 
> The capability now exists to trace the fire from an assault rifle back to 
> it's source with a high degree of accuracy (even saw this on a show about 
> military technology).
> 
> A generous and sadistic GM,
> 
> Brandon Cope
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:37:32 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tracers (was: Ammo Conservation)

I can see it now, a Bic lighter duct taped to the end of the barrel ;-)

"If the women don't find you handsome..."


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 11:54 AM 10/12/1999 +0100, you wrote:
> 
> >Hmmm ... what about gauss weapons: could they have tracer ammo?
> 
> There'd have to be an ignition method, but sure.
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:50:13 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:

Dom>>GURPS Basic doesn't have a task system in the same way that most
ex-TNE, MT
>>and T4 users would understand
>It doesn't have the MT (or TNE) task system, but then it isn't
>MT (or TNE).  People need to accept that.  It most certainly
>does have a task system.

I think we are heading towards terminology differences here...

>>It *does* have the success roll for
>>resolving task issues
>Which is what mostly rpg circles would call a tasks system.

And what most RPG people I would know would call a 'skill roll' or a
'success roll' or a 'skill test'.

>>, but this has nothing to equate to the shifting
>>difficulty levels that Traveller editions have.
>Sure it does...

Please can you elaborate and state where in GURPS Basic there is defined a
common (ie across all skills and situations) set of TN modifiers which
relate to the difficulty of the task.  As far as I can see there is nothing
in GURPS Basic that presents a common set of modifiers based on difficult
of the test. As far as GURPS is concerned *unless* the GM decides on the
fly a modifier, or the description of the skill gives a modifer, there
would be nothing to differentiate between tests in two different
situations.

For example, using a vac suit to manuever across a brightly light room with
stable gravity against using a vac suit to manuever across a room with
fluctuating gravity and strobing lights. Both would have the same Target
Number on 3D6 using GURPS unless the GM improvised or found something in a
skill description or combat section to use.

>>In all Traveller versions bar CT the prefered method of changing task
>>difficulty was achived through shifting the task's *difficulty level*
>>rather than the adding and subtracting of DMs to a dice roll or target
>>number. The philosophy behind this was gone into depth by Joe Fugate at one
>>point in either the MTJ or the Traveller Digest.
>The difficulty level in MT did just that, it changed the target number
>(simple, 3+, routine 7+, etc.)

'In all Traveller versions bar CT'... so I know MT did that...

>>The result on this collection of (often differing) DMs for success rolls is
>>that most people new to GURPS from one of the task system based Traveller
>>editions perceive GURPS as having no task system.
>The only difference is that the DM aren't given desciptive names
>like "easy", "routine", etc.  This is easily fixed but is generaly
>unimportant to everyone I've ever met.

No. There is no common system for rating difficulty or modifiers across all
task situations in GURPS Basic that I can see. This is important to a lot
of people I know.

'Task' based systems are games like: Traveller (not CT), Faded Suns, T2k,
James Bond, Cyberpunk 2020 etc which either have a different target to
achieve for different situations or a number of successes to achieve.

'Skill roll' based systems are games like CoC, CT, AD&D2nd, GURPS. These
modify a skill level or a target number dependent on the situation,
generally with no common structure between skills or situations. This is
very different to a task based system.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1196
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